"Who is not with me is against me." It can be said by Adolf Hitler, by Joseph Stalin, by Benito Mussolini, but not by a religious person. Because the person may not be with me, but it is not necessary that he should be against me. He can be indifferent. Why are you leaving out the category of the indifferent? This is dictatorial. This is not religious, this is against humanity.
You are not allowing people to be free to choose what path they want. You are forcing them to be Christians -- and you are forcing the whole of humanity into loyalty, when loyalty in fact means a slavery to the status quo -- if the society is divided into classes, you should not change it. If a few people go on becoming rich and creating millions of poor people, this is how God wants it. You should not interfere in the work of God. It is not a religious idea; it is a very cunning strategy to keep the slaves slaves, to keep women subhuman, to keep the poor poor, and to keep the rich rich.
It supports all that is ugly in a beautiful name: loyalty. I say unto you: Find out the truth in yourself, and be loyal to your truth. That truth will bring a revolution in the world. And that loyalty will not be for any status quo, that loyalty will be for making a better world, a new humanity, a new man -- more joyous, more healthy, more blissful. It is time -- a very decisive time.
All religions are out of date, particularly Christianity. It is the largest religion -- half of the world is Christian -- and they talk all kinds of nonsense. Their pillars are the resurrection of Jesus Christ .... He never died on the cross, how can he resurrect? His grave is in Kashmir, in India.
It was because of a conspiracy to save him, a conspiracy between one rich disciple and the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, that the crucifixion was to be delayed as long as possible. The crucifixion was fixed for Friday, because Saturday is Sabbath for the Jews; they don't work at all. The idea was that because the Jewish cross kills very slowly ... It takes forty-eight hours for a healthy man to die on the Jewish cross. It is a very torturous thing. An electric chair is far more merciful, but God never created the electric chair. So the crucifixion was delayed for this excuse, that excuse. Finally, Pontius Pilate wanted to see Jesus Christ before he was taken to the cross -- just to delay it -- and he talked to him. Then the procession was going uphill to where the crucifixions used to happen. There were thousands of people, and Jesus ...
He was only thirty-three, healthy, was a carpenter's son, was accustomed to carry wood from the forest, so it is easy for him to tell people, "Carry your cross on your own shoulders." He carried his. The cross was very heavy, and he fell three times on the way. I suspect that perhaps it was also part of delaying -- because he was thirty-three and he used to carry big logs. He was not a man like I am, who has never done anything in his life, good-for-nothing!
When Rahul Sanskritayana came back from Russia, he shook hands with me, and he told me, "Never go to Russia." I said, "What?!" He said, "Your hands are very bourgeois." I said, "They have to be, because I have never used them. I don't carry anything, I don't do anything." From my very childhood, my father, my mother, everybody used to tell me, "You will turn out good-for-nothing!" I have fulfilled their promise, their prophecy. You will not find another man in the world who is so good for nothing. I teach nothing.
Jesus was on the cross for only six hours. In the whole of history nobody has ever died on the Jewish cross in six hours. He was too young, healthy. And after six hours, as the sun was setting, all work had to be stopped -- that was the conspiracy -- and Jesus had to be brought down. He could not remain on the cross on the Sabbath. So he was brought down, put into a cave, and the guards were Roman, not Jews. In the middle of the night he was taken out of Judea by his richest followers -- Judea was a small place -- and he healed within a week. There was not much wrong, just a little blood had flowed out. Once he was healed, his friends and followers suggested to him not to go back to Judea, "otherwise you will be killed again.
It is better to move far away from Judea." Jesus must have heard about Moses -- because he was a Jew -- that Moses had gone in search of a lost tribe in the desert. When all the followers had reached Israel, which took forty years of wandering in the desert ... The Jews can never forgive Moses because he passed by Saudi Arabia and all the oil countries, and went on wandering in the desert -- hungry, starving, thirsty. Three-fourths of his people died on the way; only one-fourth of the original lot ... New people had come into being, because for forty years you cannot keep people celibate.
So new children were born, even a third generation had come into being, and Moses experienced the first generation gap. The people who had come with him were no more there, and the new generation had no idea about Egypt, no idea about slavery, no idea about the meeting of Moses with God, and the Ten Commandments, and they did not care about this old fellow. Just to escape ... The situation was becoming hotter and hotter against Moses, because the new generation was talking, saying that "This ugly place is the Holy Land of God? For this place our forefathers died in the desert in tremendous misery, poverty, hunger, thirst. This place ...?" Moses must have been worried. To escape from Israel, he had the excuse that "One tribe of the Jews has lost its way somewhere in the desert. You settle down, and I will go and find the lost tribe." The lost tribe reached Kashmir, which is really, one can say, a holy land -- the world's most beautiful place.
When the first Mogul emperor, Babar, came to India, he passed through Kashmir. He could not believe his eyes. He said, "If there is any paradise anywhere, it is here, it is here!" Moses died in Kashmir. His grave and Jesus' grave both are on the same hillside, under the same old trees, and still today a Jewish family takes care of both the graves. Those are the only two graves on which the inscription is in Hebrew. Now, in India there are no Jews. The other Jews in Kashmir have been converted by the Mohammedans, forcibly, into Mohammedanism. But because Mohammed had accepted Moses and Jesus as prophets of God, they did not destroy the two graves, and they did not convert the family who was taking care of those two graves. Descendants of the same family -- that is the only Jewish family in Kashmir -- are still taking care of them.
I have been to the graves. They are nearby a village which is called Pahalgam. In Kashmiri, Pahalgam means the village of the shepherd; it must have been named according to Jesus' claim that he was the shepherd. There is no other reason for it to be called the village of the shepherd.
I asked the guardians of those two graves what is written on them. On one is Moses' name, on the other is Jesus' name, in Hebrew -- in Hebrew it is Joshua -- "Joshua, who claimed to be the last prophet of the Jews."
Resurrection never happened -- and those kinds of things are the pillars: virgin birth, resurrection, creation of the world as opposed to evolution. If it is true that God created the perfect world and there has been no evolution, then all the popes, the cardinals, the archbishops, the bishops and the priests would have been naked just like Adam and Eve. Or they may have been hiding their private parts, either with big leaves, as they hide them on the statues, or by hunting animals and using their skins.
Certainly God did not create railway trains, airplanes, cars, electricity, post offices. All this has come as part of the evolutionary program. Whether science believes in Charles Darwin's idea of evolution or not is not the question. Christianity will have to believe in evolution. It may be a different version, but evolution is the scientific truth. You can see it all around ....
And I am seeing immense contradictions. On the one hand they say, "You should not change anything, God is more wise than you" -- then why are you converting people to Christianity? God made them pagans, and you are converting them to Christianity. You are converting the poor, the downtrodden, the beggars, the orphans, to Christianity -- and particularly to the Catholic sect. It is against God, against the Christian God. Creation is a dead word. It is just like a pond, it does not flow. And a pond has as its destiny only death. Its water will evaporate, and soon there will be mud and nothing else. A river is life. Everything is moving, everything is evolving. God has not created a Gautam Buddha, and God has not created a Mahavira. Adam and Eve he has created -- and even he could not tolerate Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. He threw them out because they had committed the fundamental sin of disobedience -- his own children, naked, thrown out into the world. God created only one couple. Now there are more than five billion people on the earth. By the end of the century there will be seven billion people on the earth.
And you say things are not moving, everything is static?
Christians say that death is the punishment for your sins. I wonder that even intelligent people go on reading such rubbish. Then why do saints die? If it is because of sins that people die, then why do popes die? Why did Jesus die? And according to Friedrich Nietzsche ... why has God died? Either everybody is committing sin, or the whole idea is absolutely wrong. Death is a natural phenomenon, it has nothing to do with sin.
to be continued............